Mayer's HHO Project

Here are some pictures of the HHO system I'm building. It is similar to the "Gas4Free" unit but will incorporate improvements of my own design.

See the brown colored washers on the left side? These washers are made of lower grade 18/8 SS (stainless steel) and within minutes of operation, quickly caused the water to turn brown. This happened because of the higher iron content in this SS. All metal(s) that come in contact with the water/electrolyte solution should be at least 316L grade stainless steel. This higher grade of SS is much more resistant to corrosion. My electrolyte by the way was salt and hydrogen peroxide.

One way to determine the quality of stainless steel for use with HHO generation is to hold it up next to a magnet. The stronger the attraction of the metal to the magnet means there is more iron in it. (not good) The plates I'm using here are made of 316L grade stainless steel and they have very little if no attraction to a magnet.

The two wires attached to the positive and negative plates are made from 4 individual pieces of solid ~19 gauge (0.035" diameter) SS 316L grade wire. I clamped one end of each of the 4 wires into a vise and the other ends to vise grips, twisted them all together into one stranded piece and then cut it to length. I'll eventually be replacing these wires in favor of thicker & higher current capable 316L SS bar stock. The washers, bolts and nylon lock nuts are also on there way out in favor of 316L hardware. The shafts of the bolts are non-magnetic and look good, but their slotted heads are magnetic and show signs of pitting. Interesting...

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I powered this cell up for no longer than 3-4 minutes tops with a voltage of around 4VDC and then a full 13.6VDC @ ~6-8A for close to 15-20 seconds. Upon closer inspection, the positive plates are pitting whereas the negative plates still look smooth and untouched. All cell plates are made of 316L grade stainless steel. Since Hydrogen is released at the negative plates and Oxygen at the positive plates, it appears that the Oxygen may be the cause of the pitting. Do we need better SS for the plates and/or a different electrolyte?

From some information I've gathered, using salt and/or baking soda as an electrolyte may greatly speed up the corrosion process of the 316L SS. So now it's off to experimenting with different electrolytes...

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'Super' Stainless Steel Developed

ScienceDaily (June 21, 2007) — A new type of stainless steel alloy developed at Oak Ridge National Laboratory could allow for significantly increased operating temperatures and corresponding increases in efficiency in future energy production systems.

The new alloys offer superior oxidation resistance compared to conventional stainless steels, without significant increased cost or decreased creep resistance (sagging at high temperature).

What sets this proprietary material apart from other stainless steels is its ability to form protective aluminum oxide scales instead of chromium oxide scales. The combination of creep and oxidation resistance offered by these alloys previously was available only with nickel-base alloys, which are about five times more costly than the new stainless steels.

This material also has potential applications in high-temperature (up to 800 degrees Celsius) chemical and process industry applications.

The material was reported on in the April 20 issue of Science. Funding for this research was provided by the Department of Energy's Office of Fossil Energy, Advanced Research Materials Program. Additional funding was received from DOE's Distributed Energy Program, the Division of Materials Sciences and Engineering, Office of Basic Energy Sciences and the SHaRE User Facility.

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The article above may be the solution to our SS corrosion problem. At no additional cost to produce, it sounds like an affordable way to go. I believe this new stainless steel is called CF8C-Plus. Then we may not have to worry so much about what type of electrolyte to use. The best electrolyte would be one that leaves the least amount of residue and the least expensive.

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Stainless Steel Corrosion Mystery Solved By UK Researchers

ScienceDaily (Feb. 14, 2002) — From cutlery and cooking pans to the inside of a Formula 1 car engine or a huge chemical process plant, stainless steel is all around us. It’s not meant to corrode, but it can, and when it does the results can be disastrous, whether it’s a hole in your dishwasher or a failed industrial plant.

Unlike rusting, stainless steel corrosion is highly localized and apparently random. Tiny holes called pits can drill through a substantial thickness of steel in a relatively short time. The pits can cause leaks or act as points from which cracks initiate, similar to the type of defect caused by scoring glass before breaking it, and can cause some of the most catastrophic industrial accidents known.

Why stainless steel fails has long been a mystery, but today with the publication of research in the journal Nature, British researchers claim to have solved it.

‘Stainlessness’ is created by alloying iron with chromium. As the steel ingot cools after it has been made, tiny sulphur-rich impurity particles, about 10 millionths of a metre in diameter, solidify at a lower temperature than the steel, remaining molten for a time after the metal has solidified.

Using an advanced new microscope the team from Imperial College and University College London found a region around these impurity particles that has significantly less chromium than the rest of the steel. During cooling of the steel the impurity particles ‘suck’ chromium out of the steel around them, creating a tiny nutshell of steel that is not stainless.

Corrosion of this layer, just one 10 millionth of a metre thick, is the virus that triggers the main attack say scientists Dr Mary Ryan of Imperial College and Professor David Williams of University College London.

“Most of your household appliances contain stainless steel,” said Dr Ryan of the department of materials at Imperial College.

“It’s quick to clean and has an attractive shiny appearance – this cleanability also makes it the material of choice for applications requiring sterile surfaces such as surgical instruments or plants for producing pharmaceuticals.

“Overall it’s used in countless engineering applications and, in general, it has very good resistance and performs well but it is susceptible to this devastating pitting corrosion. Now we’ve worked out the sequence of events that cause it, we know what causes this Achilles heel, and we can use this information to work out how to fix it,” she said.

The authors suggest that altering the conditions under which it is made could cure the problem without using very expensive low sulphur steels. Another alternative is to use heat treatments after the steel is processed, causing chromium to replenish those sites it has been depleted from, they suggest.

The research was supported by the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council (EPSRC).

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After doing some research on different types of Electrolytes, it would appear that Sodium Hydroxide would be the best choice. Salt as an electrolyte quickly promotes corrosion to 316L SS and creates a thick brown muck in the water. Baking Soda is better but will collect on the plates and doesn't stay permanently in solution. NaOH, or Sodium Hydroxide seems to be the best as of this date. It stays in solution and has less corrosive effects on 316L stainless steel. I haven't done any tests with NaOH yet but you can watch a comparison of all three of these electrolytes here: "Testing Salt, Baking Soda and NaOH". Also, it appears that if one uses NaOH, you may also need a double bubbler to totally scrub (remove) the NaOH from the Hydrogen gas. Introducing NaOH into your engine appears not to be a good thing and may cause some long term damage. Sodium Hydroxide (aka Lye, Caustic Soda, NaOH) is commonly used as a drain cleaner and can be purchased just about anywhere.

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There are a group of people that appear to be running engines completely on water alone using high voltages to explode the water. You can check this out at the OverUnity site.

A 20 minute test run on my MAX Cell using my just repaired 12VDC power supply and only tap water produced a healthy amount of HHO with only a very minimal amount of brown staining in the water. I still haven't replaced the 18/8 bolts, washers and nylon lock nuts yet so this is looking extremely good at this point. Then a trip over to ACE Hardware for a small $4.00 bottle of 100% Sodium Hydroxide (aka Lye, Caustic Soda or NaOH). For those of you who aren't familiar with NaOH, it is poisonous and can cause severe burns so you really want to keep it off of everything including you and yours.

I added a little less than a 16th of a tablespoon of NaOH to a liter and a half of distilled water in a small plastic container, then stirred it into the water for a good 30 to 45 seconds and placed the MAX Cell into the water/NaOH solution. The distilled water was at room temperature and after turning on the power supply, observed an initial current flow of around 6 amps. Over a period of 5 to 10 minutes give or take, the water/NaOH solution slowly began to warm and as it warmed, the current slowly increased to around 18 amps and stabilized at that point. I have yet to build a container for the Cell but when I do, I'll be able to determine the liters/minute of HHO production. Like I mentioned previously, with the NaOH added, the brown staining in the water was barely visible even after a 20 minute run and is only present because the SS bolts, washers and nylon lock nuts are made of 18/8 stainless steel. So, if one designs a cell using all 316L SS and NaOH as an electrolyte, it appears at this point that you can build a low maintenance cell with a long life span. You can view the video of my HHO Cell describing its use with different electrolytes HERE.

I received my 316 SS hardware and replace the 18/8 bolts, washers and nuts with it. After a 1 hour test run, it's still producing a small amount of brown gunk in the water but the metal seems to be holding up very well. Since all the metal in the HHO generator is now 316L (plates) and 316 (hardware) SS, I can safely say that this metal is slowly disintegrating. How long it will last will be determined when this generator is installed in a vehicle and tested. The plates are made of 316L 22 gauge SS and it appears upon close inspection that most of the corrosion is taking place on the positive plates. I also lightly etched all of the plates which is done using 60 grain (coarse) sand paper sanding the plate surface in one direction then rotating the plate 90 degrees and sanding again. This is supposed to remove the surface coating and allow more hydrogen production. It did appear that there was a small increase in HHO but exactly how much I don't know.

Received my 316L bar stock and attached it to the positive and negative sides of the plates. The stranded 316L SS wires I used before would get very hot. So hot in fact you could not touch them and they would discolor. This bar stock is perfect and gets only as hot as the water/NaOH solution. The bar stock is also heavy enough to support the MAX Cell in its container. Here is a picture of it:

I made another test run with this Cell after installing the bar stock. Starting water/NaOH solution temperature was 78 degrees F. with 12.8VDC @ 5.9Amps. After 1 hour and 4 minutes, the water/NaOH solution temperature was 164 degrees F. with 12.8VDC @ 13.5Amps. We absolutely need a constant HHO production rate so we need a Pulse Width Modulated Power Supply to accomplish this. A PWM will give us our maximum HHO production at a cold solution temperature and as the cell solution heats up, the PWM will regulate the HHO production by shortening the length of the 12VDC on time of the square wave pulse applied to the cell keeping our HHO production the same. This PWM action will also save car alternators from burning up. If one adds enough NaOH so that the current draw is say 20Amps at a cold solution temperature, the cell could be drawing 3 times that amount (60Amps) after it warms up.

I found schematics, a wiring diagram and parts list for a PWM Power Supply that should do the trick. The parts will run around $40 - $50 dollars.

I'm also thinking that as hot as the solution is getting, there's probably some water vapor evaporating that could work its way into the engine. Possibly feeding the HHO through a bubbler that's attached directly in front of the radiator should condense any water vapor that enters it and trap it there. Some careful thought is needed here for sure.

So until I have my PWM P/S assembled and decide to go forward, I wish you much success with your HHO project.

A fellow HHO experimenter named Charles gave me some interesting info on E.F.I.E.'s and when I get to that point of testing the E.F.I.E., I'll talk about it. But I have yet to build the PWM, complete the assembly of the HHO generator and construct a bubbler. The installation and adjustment of the E.F.I.E. is the last step in an HHO setup.

Potassium Hydroxide (KOH) should be used in favor of Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) because NaOH is carried out of the HHO Generator and into the engine causing corrosion and engine damage whereas KOH is not carried off to the engine and stays put in the HHO Generator.

Also it has been recommended that if for example one has a 5.0 liter engine, you should build an HHO generator capable of producing 10 liter's per minute of HHO. This fact requires much more current that a standard automobile generator can produce. So one would have to install say a 200 amp generator or add an additional generator to the vehicle. (Something I'm not prepared to do at this time.) These higher HHO producing systems can be built but then problems arise with engine timing. HHO burns at a much faster rate than gasoline so engine timing becomes a problem. These issues are now being discussed and you can view them on YouTube here.

I've currently put HHO on hold until further developments arise and am now tinkering with mixing various ratio's of E85 in with my gasoline without any modifications to the vehicle whatsoever. So far I've worked with ratio's of close to 60% gasoline to 40% Ethanol and my car is running just fine along with a noticeable increase in engine performance! If everyone did this, we'd have no need for foreign oil. I know that gasoline is now cheaper than E85 but it won't be if we continue on a diet of pure gasoline. So HHO people, keep up the great work. Vehicle's can and do run just nicely on pure Hydrogen. Ford has a truck that does this. I for one am going to concentrate on Ethanol for now...

The Flash Point

'Super' Stainless Steel Developed

Stainless Steel Corrosion Mystery Solved By UK Researchers